[FFmpeg-devel] New project using ffmpeg

Cezary Falba cezary
Tue Jan 22 09:58:23 CET 2008

On 22 Jan 2008, at 08:37, Diego Biurrun wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 04:38:47PM +0100, Diego Biurrun wrote:
>> On Fri, Jan 04, 2008 at 12:42:08PM +0100, Cezary Falba wrote:
>>> On 23 Dec 2007, at 22:14, Diego Biurrun wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Dec 19, 2007 at 12:25:52PM +0000, Cezary Falba wrote:
>>>>> On 18 Dec 2007, at 17:34, Diego Biurrun wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 18, 2007 at 11:43:36AM +0000, Cezary Falba wrote:
>>>>>>> On 18 Dec 2007, at 08:20, Diego Biurrun wrote:
>>>>>>>> Also, you claim that your software is available under the GPL,
>>>>>>>> but when I download the source code, there is no sign of the  
>>>>>>>> GPL
>>>>>>>> anywhere and all files are marked as copyrighted by you or  
>>>>>>>> Saffron
>>>>>>>> Digital or lack any copyright or license information. This  
>>>>>>>> makes
>>>>>>>> them effectively non- free.
>>>>>>>> Also, there is the following statement on your website:
>>>>>>>> By downloading our software you accept the GPL licence which  
>>>>>>>> can be
>>>>>>>> found here.
>>>>>>>> This makes me think that you still haven't read the GPL,  
>>>>>>>> since it
>>>>>>>> contains a paragraph about the need to accept the license  
>>>>>>>> that this
>>>>>>>> conflicts with.
>>>>>>>> Releasing your software under a license you have not read is
>>>>>>>> tantamount to buying a house/car/whatever without reading the
>>>>>>>> contract. I'll contact you in private with some excellent  
>>>>>>>> Brooklyn
>>>>>>>> bridges that I have for sale at premium conditions...
>>>>>>> Thanks a lot for checking a site and all advices.
>>>>>>> I just fixed a website and added a license to both sources and
>>>>>>> installers.
>>>>>>> It will be highly appreciated if you could re-check that page  
>>>>>>> again
>>>>>>> when you have few minutes.
>>>>>>> There is no rush as we still have time before we officially  
>>>>>>> release it
>>>>>>> to public.
>>>>>> I have trouble testing the Mac version since it now seems to  
>>>>>> require OS
>>>>>> X 10.5, but I'm still on 10.4.  Your website claims that only  
>>>>>> 10.4 is
>>>>>> required..
>>>>>> You have added LGPL copyright headers to your source files, but  
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> license text you include is the GPL.  This looks like an  
>>>>>> oversight from
>>>>>> you.  Also, your copyright headers only contain two of the three
>>>>>> paragraphs commonly used for this purpose.
>>>>>> Are you using FFmpeg in GPL mode?
>>>>>> I'm being told that the Windows installer of your program is  
>>>>>> totally
>>>>>> broken and installs stuff into C: instead of the path it claims  
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> install to.  It also displays a license different from the  
>>>>>> (L)GPL.
>>>>>> The Windows source package contains a __MACOSX directory, weird.
>>>>>> I still find it awkward that the first mentions of FFmpeg,  
>>>>>> AviSynth and
>>>>>> Perl on the above website are not links to homepages.  Instead  
>>>>>> you hide
>>>>>> those links at the bottom of the page.
>>>>>> So it's getting better, but you're still not at 100%.
>>>>> Good to hear from you that we are get better with that.
>>>>> I just made some tweaks to installers and website.
>>>>> I also replaced license files with proper LGPL...
>>>> Well, we are moving sideways, rather than forward.  Here is a  
>>>> list of
>>>> issues, some of which are old:
>>>> - The Windows source code link gives "403 Permission denied".
>>>> - The OS X installer claims to work on system 10.4.6 or later.   
>>>> When I
>>>> try to install on 10.4.11 I get a message that "10.4.6 or later is
>>>> required", well I thought that 11 > 6, but oh well ...
>>>> - You mark your source files as LGPL 2.1 or later, but the  
>>>> license file
>>>> you include and link to is the LGPL version 3.  What is it going to
>>>> be?
>>>> - You do not provide FFmpeg sources for download.  A pointer to our
>>>> homepage is not enough.  You need to give people the exact source  
>>>> you
>>>> are using.
>>>> - In the paragraph
>>>>   Saffron Master Encoder is our in house encoding utility made on  
>>>> top
>>>>   of open source projects such as: FFmpeg, AviSynth and Perl that
>>>>   prepares your source video to be used with our mobile delivery
>>>>   platform.
>>>> the words FFmpeg, AviSynth and Perl should be clickable links that
>>>> lead to each project's homepage.  You have put links below that
>>>> paragraph, but this feels awkward and FFmpeg is missing.
>>>> This is a minor issue, but it would be nice if you could fix it.
>>>> Overall I have to say this is starting to feel a bit like free
>>>> consulting work for your company.  I'm under the impression that  
>>>> you
>>>> still have not read the licenses or its FAQs yourself.  Instead  
>>>> you have
>>>> me go over the results of your tries to comply with the license.   
>>>> I'm
>>>> not seeing you put in the necessary effort to amend the  
>>>> situation.  This
>>>> is frustrating.
>>> I've fixed OS X installer, replaced licenses in both installers  
>>> and source
>>> codes and fixed web site. Now there are links in paragraph you  
>>> pointed.
>> The OS X installer is not fixed, it still refuses to run on my  
>> 10.4.11
>> system, claiming that "10.4.6 or later is required".
>> Anyway, others tell me that your Windows installer does display the  
>> now.  However, there is no way to uninstall your program.  While  
>> this is
>> entirely your problem, don't expect us to recommend your program to
>> anyone this way.
>>> I've also added information about getting FFmpeg source from SVN.
>> This is not enough.  I thought I was clear about this in the  
>> paragraph
>> above.  You need to provide complete FFmpeg source code including any
>> modifications you did.  Sending people to our homepage is not enough.
>> When I download the Mac OS X source code and try to build it in  
>> xcode,
>> the build fails because the ffmpeg executable is missing.
>>> And I'm very sorry you got that feeling. I fully understand and  
>>> apologize.
>>> I don't want to bother you every time I do some change to the site  
>>> but me
>>> and my bosses really want to be all right with FFmpeg and other guys
>>> whose work we use in this project.
>> I'll be honest and blunt now: I do not want your apologies, I want  
>> you
>> to work harder on this and not use me as free consulting labor.  I
>> pointed out 4 issues (plus one minor) above, you fixed two.
>> If you and your bosses really want to be all right with us and use  
>> open
>> source code while respecting copyrights and not breaking the law, you
>> need to take this much more seriously.
>> In one of my mails I asked you whether you used FFmpeg in GPL mode or
>> not.  You never answered my question.  I looked myself, this is the
>> output of the Windows version you use:
>> FFmpeg version SVN-r8797, Copyright (c) 2000-2007 Fabrice Bellard,  
>> et al.
>>  configuration: --enable-gpl --enable-pp --enable-swscaler --enable- 
>> pthreads --enable-liba52 --enable-avisynth --enable-libdts --enable- 
>> libfaac --enable-libfaad --enable-libgsm --enable-libmp3lame -- 
>> enable-libnut --enable-libogg --enable-libtheora --enable-libvorbis  
>> --enable-x264 --enable-xvid --enable-amr_nb
>> --enable-amr_wb --cpu=i686 --enable-memalign-hack --extra-ldflags=- 
>> static
>> So you are using it in GPL mode, but what is more important is that  
>> you
>> also compile with libamr support, which is non-free and not
>> redistributable.  As long as you keep distributing this binary you  
>> are
>> violating the copyright of 3GPP.
>> I'm going to make you a numbered list of issues and questions,  
>> maybe this
>> way you will find it easier to address all of them.
>> 0. You are using libamr.  That's entirely your problem, but you are  
>> in
>>   breach of copyright.
>> 1. You are still not providing FFmpeg source code.  You need to  
>> provide
>>   the exact source code you are using, including any modifications.
>>   Pointing at our homepage or Subversion repo is *not* enough.
>> 2. If you continue using FFmpeg in GPL mode, the license of your  
>> program
>>   becomes the GPL.  You have to update your licenses accordingly.
>> 3. The OS X installer is broken, at least on OS X 10.4.11, I have  
>> no way
>>   to verify your claims that you fixed its other issues.
>> 4. Have you read the LGPL?  The GPL?  The GPL FAQ?
>> best regards
>> Diego
>> P.S.: Please keep the CC, restoring it everytime is getting annoying.
> I haven't heard from you in over two weeks.  Are you going to address
> the issues I pointed out above?
> best regards
> Diego

Off course Diego - I'm working on all of them. Mac version is mostly  
done and I'm finishing windows one.
I just didn't want to bother you with incomplete stuff.

Kind Regards,

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